Originally Posted by SCORPIOWOMAN

As this is topic of DOWRY and why one young woman took such drastic steps for herself and her children..

I found this interesting information on an India times website...

What do some of you think about it.. Thank you so much for reading this.. Scorpio and cats...



The most dramatic aspect is the giving of dowry.

In many communities throughout India, a dowry has traditionally been given by a bride's kin at the time of her marriage.

In ancient times, the dowry was considered a woman's wealth--property due a beloved daughter who had no claim on her natal family's real estate--and typically included portable valuables such as jewelry and household goods that a bride could control throughout her life.

However, over time, the larger proportion of the dowry has come to consist of goods and cash payments that go straight into the hands of the groom's family.

In the late twentieth century, throughout much of India, dowry payments have escalated, and a groom's parents sometimes insist on compensation for their son's higher education and even for his future earnings, to which the bride will presumably have access.

Some of the dowries demanded are quite oppressive, amounting to several years' salary in cash as well as items such as motorcycles, air conditioners, and fancy cars. Among some lower-status groups, large dowries are currently replacing traditional bride-price payments.

Even among Muslims, previously not given to demanding large dowries, reports of exorbitant dowries are increasing.

The dowry is becoming an increasingly onerous burden for the bride's family. Antidowry laws exist but are largely ignored, and a bride's treatment in her marital home is often affected by the value of her dowry.

Increasingly frequent are horrible incidents, particularly in urban areas, where a groom's family makes excessive demands on the bride's family--even after marriage--and when the demands are not met, murder the bride, typically by setting her clothes on fire in a cooking "accident." The groom is then free to remarry and collect another sumptuous dowry.

The male and female in-laws implicated in these murders have seldom been punished.

Such dowry deaths have been the subject of numerous media reports in India and other countries and have mobilized feminist groups to action. In some of the worst areas, such as the National Capital Territory of Delhi, where hundreds of such deaths are reported annually and the numbers are increasing yearly, the law now requires that all suspicious deaths of new brides be investigated.

Official government figures report 1,786 registered dowry deaths nationwide in 1987; there is also an estimate of some 5,000 dowry deaths in 1991. Women's groups sometimes picket the homes of the in-laws of burned brides. Some analysts have related the growth of this phenomenon to the growth of consumerism in Indian society.

Fears of impoverishing their parents have led some urban middle-class young women, married and unmarried, to commit suicide.

However, through the giving of large dowries, the newly wealthy are often able to marry their treasured daughters up the status hierarchy so reified in Indian society.

i am happy to learn that you have read through the news paper report. most of the things reported in the report as my knowledge goes is correct. only thing is that you have to separate the exaggerations added by the media to receive the public attention. the dowary deaths in urban area are mostly among those people who do the manual labour. though they live in the townships they don't have enough to live like urban flock. that is it and they try to make money in the easy way, which lead to such incidents. the girl who is poor and doesn't want to impoverish her family sometimes takes the extreme step. even killings are there.
actually in the beginning it was not simply a dowary system, it was something like a girl's share in the patrimonial property. in that sense i think it is not a bad idea. there it is only a legitimate share and not something meant for bargaining.later on it happened that somehow people started bargain for the money received. but there are some areas in the country where a matriarchal system prevails and the dowary and harassment is in the other way. it is something very difficult to explain. laws are promulgated, but actually again the politial system is corrupt that any body with money can get the verdict in their favour.
if the girl is educated and has a job with a rather good salary, the problem seems to be not so serious. when the girl earns a good amount of money as her salary so much of dowary problem does not exist.
may be the right way to proceed is to make it compuslory to educate the girl children. especially afford them higher education. upto the 10th grade we will find the girls top scoring in the exams and their names stand out. but most rural parents don't take enough pain to educate their girl children in a higher level, which spoils their own chances for a better living. the husbands should be taught also that one married they have more obligations towards wife and children than to their mother and others in the family. too often so many problems are created by the possessive mothers of the husbands. (mother-in-law was a feared term in India for a long time). hope you understand.
bye

Originally Posted by SCORPIOWOMAN

As this is topic of DOWRY and why one young woman took such drastic steps for herself and her children..

I found this interesting information on an India times website...

What do some of you think about it.. Thank you so much for raeding this.. Scorpio and cats...



The most dramatic aspect is the giving of dowry.

In many communities throughout India, a dowry has traditionally been given by a bride's kin at the time of her marriage.

In ancient times, the dowry was considered a woman's wealth--property due a beloved daughter who had no claim on her natal family's real estate--and typically included portable valuables such as jewelry and household goods that a bride could control throughout her life.

However, over time, the larger proportion of the dowry has come to consist of goods and cash payments that go straight into the hands of the groom's family.

In the late twentieth century, throughout much of India, dowry payments have escalated, and a groom's parents sometimes insist on compensation for their son's higher education and even for his future earnings, to which the bride will presumably have access.

Some of the dowries demanded are quite oppressive, amounting to several years' salary in cash as well as items such as motorcycles, air conditioners, and fancy cars. Among some lower-status groups, large dowries are currently replacing traditional bride-price payments.

Even among Muslims, previously not given to demanding large dowries, reports of exorbitant dowries are increasing.

The dowry is becoming an increasingly onerous burden for the bride's family. Antidowry laws exist but are largely ignored, and a bride's treatment in her marital home is often affected by the value of her dowry.

Increasingly frequent are horrible incidents, particularly in urban areas, where a groom's family makes excessive demands on the bride's family--even after marriage--and when the demands are not met, murder the bride, typically by setting her clothes on fire in a cooking "accident." The groom is then free to remarry and collect another sumptuous dowry.

The male and female in-laws implicated in these murders have seldom been punished.

Such dowry deaths have been the subject of numerous media reports in India and other countries and have mobilized feminist groups to action. In some of the worst areas, such as the National Capital Territory of Delhi, where hundreds of such deaths are reported annually and the numbers are increasing yearly, the law now requires that all suspicious deaths of new brides be investigated.

Official government figures report 1,786 registered dowry deaths nationwide in 1987; there is also an estimate of some 5,000 dowry deaths in 1991. Women's groups sometimes picket the homes of the in-laws of burned brides. Some analysts have related the growth of this phenomenon to the growth of consumerism in Indian society.

Fears of impoverishing their parents have led some urban middle-class young women, married and unmarried, to commit suicide.

However, through the giving of large dowries, the newly wealthy are often able to marry their treasured daughters up the status hierarchy so reified in Indian society.

i am happy to learn that you have read through the news paper report. most of the things reported in the report as my knowledge goes is correct. only thing is that you have to separate the exaggerations added by the media to receive the public attention. the dowary deaths in urban area are mostly among those people who do the manual labour. though they live in the townships they don't have enough to live like urban flock. that is it and they try to make money in the easy way, which lead to such incidents. the girl who is poor and doesn't want to impoverish her family sometimes takes the extreme step. even killings are there.
actually in the beginning it was not simply a dowary system, it was something like a girl's share in the patrimonial property. in that sense i think it is not a bad idea. there it is only a legitimate share and not something meant for bargaining.later on it happened that somehow people started bargain for the money received. but there are some areas in the country where a matriarchal system prevails and the dowary and harassment is in the other way. it is something very difficult to explain. laws are promulgated, but actually again the politial system is corrupt that any body with money can get the verdict in their favour.
if the girl is educated and has a job with a rather good salary, the problem seems to be not so serious. when the girl earns a good amount of money as her salary so much of dowary problem does not exist.
may be the right way to proceed is to make it compuslory to educate the girl children. especially afford them higher education. upto the 10th grade we will find the girls top scoring in the exams and their names stand out. but most rural parents don't take enough pain to educate their girl children in a higher level, which spoils their own chances for a better living. the husbands should be taught also that one married they have more obligations towards wife and children than to their mother and others in the family. too often so many problems are created by the possessive mothers of the husbands. (mother-in-law was a feared term in India for a long time). hope you understand.
bye

Originally Posted by chickchickle

i am happy to learn that you have read through the news paper report. most of the things reported in the report as my knowledge goes is correct. only thing is that you have to separate the exaggerations added by the media to receive the public attention. the dowary deaths in urban area are mostly among those people who do the manual labour. though they live in the townships they don't have enough to live like urban flock. that is it and they try to make money in the easy way, which lead to such incidents. the girl who is poor and doesn't want to impoverish her family sometimes takes the extreme step. even killings are there.
actually in the beginning it was not simply a dowary system, it was something like a girl's share in the patrimonial property. in that sense i think it is not a bad idea. there it is only a legitimate share and not something meant for bargaining.later on it happened that somehow people started bargain for the money received. but there are some areas in the country where a matriarchal system prevails and the dowary and harassment is in the other way. it is something very difficult to explain. laws are promulgated, but actually again the politial system is corrupt that any body with money can get the verdict in their favour.
if the girl is educated and has a job with a rather good salary, the problem seems to be not so serious. when the girl earns a good amount of money as her salary so much of dowary problem does not exist.
may be the right way to proceed is to make it compuslory to educate the girl children. especially afford them higher education. upto the 10th grade we will find the girls top scoring in the exams and their names stand out. but most rural parents don't take enough pain to educate their girl children in a higher level, which spoils their own chances for a better living. the husbands should be taught also that one married they have more obligations towards wife and children than to their mother and others in the family. too often so many problems are created by the possessive mothers of the husbands. (mother-in-law was a feared term in India for a long time). hope you understand.
bye

Thank you so much for this post..

I was just reading about INDIA and its amzing and sometimes confusing (to myself), caste systems, relationships, marriages religion etc..

Totally fascinating, I will now try and find out more...

What are your opinions on the Dalit people of India..

And has their lot somehow improved in the 21st century...

I was just reading about Castes, and it is so unkind to some but good to others...

This has similarities with my country, mostly in some remote rural villages..

I came from Yugoslavia, but, I was from the city of Belgrade and I knew that some of the rural folk had some old fashioned and extremely rigid codes of behavoir left over from when we were occupied by Turks for over 500 years..

As I was reading about India I noticed that some words found in My language actually originate from you guys.. Interesting...

Cheers from, Scorpio and Cats...

see the attachment

Originally Posted by shushu

see the attachment

There is NO Atachment.. Try uploading again...

Originally Posted by SCORPIOWOMAN

Thank you so much for this post..

I was just reading about INDIA and its amzing and sometimes confusing (to myself), caste systems, relationships, marriages religion etc..

Totally fascinating, I will now try and find out more...

What are your opinions on the Dalit people of India..

And has their lot somehow improved in the 21st century...

I was just reading about Castes, and it is so unkind to some but good to others...

This has similarities with my country, mostly in some remote rural villages..

I came from Yugoslavia, but, I was from the city of Belgrade and I knew that some of the rural folk had some old fashioned and extremely rigid codes of behavoir left over from when we were occupied by Turks for over 500 years..

As I was reading about India I noticed that some words found in My language actually originate from you guys.. Interesting...

Cheers from, Scorpio and Cats...

to speak something about caste system is very difficult. i would say that caste system was too inhuman, that it did not allow certain groups to come up at all in life. origin of caste system dates back to the ancient religious traditions. it was said that brahma (god of creation in hindu mythology)when created human kind a group came from his head and they were known as brahmins and they were a privilaged class. only they were allowed to learn scriptures and interpret it. the next group came from the shoulder of brahma they were known as kshatriyas (warriors) their work was to fight for the country and protect the brahmins, the third group came from the thigh of brahma they were knows as vaisyas (merchant class and business men), and the fourth group came from the foot of brahman and they were supposed to do all the meanial jobs.
there was something called untouchability existing. that means, the sudras were not allowed to come into any physical contact with the brahmins who were a superior class. not even allowed to use the same foot path. it was so horrible that the sudra children could not go to the school were the brahmin children were present.
the architect of indian constitution Dr. B.R. Ambedkar was from the untouchable caste. as he experienced a lot of difficulties in life due to his caste of origin when he framed the constitution he has made strong efforts to abolish the system. to an extent he was successful. now access to education and such things are possible. no more untouchability. but alll the same caste system is very prevalent and strong in many parts of the country. too often justice is denied to the lower caste people. absolutely into the top of the ladder (status of society )if you find a dalit or someone from the lower caste it should still be treated as exception. be it politics or any offices. i can talk at lenght on the topic may be in another post. but to the question raised by you regarding the status of the dalits in India, my answer is despite all the efforts by a lot of committed humanists nothing substantial has taken place. we have a whole lot of politicians who want the dalits to be where they are.......how can they....?

Thank you for such informative response..

Originally Posted by SCORPIOWOMAN

Thank you for such informative response..

you are welcome

sorry i was not able to respond as i did not had a net connected system all these days. even now i am doing it in a browsing cafe which is to costly for me so meet you all again bye.

Originally Posted by shushu

sorry i was not able to respond as i did not had a net connected system all these days. even now i am doing it in a browsing cafe which is to costly for me so meet you all again bye.

hey shushu have u heard abount an entity called lawyer. hire him for gods sake. he will take care of u. ( in his own way he he he) dont waste ur time and others with false exotica.