Originally Posted by onetoone

As A psychiatrist you should know that when people are sick they have no idea where thay are and/or the actions they are carrying out........
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I agree WHEN they are sick...but many have Lawyers 'cover up' with excuses,.....and YES as a Psychiatrist I DO know...and that is the problem
we do evualuations ..that never get to the Courts simply because the Lawyers withhold them and unless the Judge asks then they never get to know ...Lawyers are good at fending off any material that doesn't suit them or there 'Client"
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If the person in question needs a psychiatric assessment and it turns out that he is a Schizophrenic off his meds, and thought that he was in space battling aliens with a raygun to save the earth from extinction then Where is the crime???
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Then there is no crime.....I agree.....because Schizophrenics rarely are violent...,,Paranoid Schizophrenia..however is something else again but few actually suffer from this form......and believe me there are many forms of Schizophrenia...brought on by as many different things...
which all manifest in different ways..........the one you quote belongs in the Comic Books and on Movies not in reality.....
However IF the scenario you quote is the case then usually the person appears Briefly in Court and is then ordered to the Psychiatric Hospital closest or the one the client is associated with.......Anyone can be "held" for up to 72 hours for assessment..after that it needs either a Court Order
or certification by 2 Psychiatrists....

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You have to look at it from a medical standpoint,, if the man in question while on his medication is told of the horrific crime, and has no idea he carried it out, why is he at fault?? geeezuz, when the Brain is unbalanced, with mixed information firing on all levels and there is no way of discerning reality from fiction....
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I am unable to look at it in any other way than from a medical standpoint....
very few true Schizophrenics 'go off' their meds......they realise how important they are.....the meds are the only way thay can have a useful and productive life.......you could very well be working beside people with this problem and never know it.........when correctly managed people with this problem are more intelligent and productive than the average 'normal' person
( but then I dont like the label 'normal' either...)

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As a psychologist??? (mmm i wonder) you should know that

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Perhaps I should explain the difference..I am a Psychiatrist.....I treat with Drugs...........a Psychologist treats with words......and that is about as simple as i am able to get it for you...
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Not just ohhhh how horrible lock him up who cares how or why he did the crimes..
thats caveman thinking:cool
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These were not my words........This man has been evaluated..by 6 different Psychiatrists 3 said he was sane.......3 said they needed more time.......
the Lawyers went with the latter because it did not suit them to go with the former......and sadly YES there are unethical Psychiatrists in the business who will pamper.... for a fee ....the Ego's of the Lawyers who also claim a FEE..so the longer the trial the bigger the fee....

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stop believing everything you see on TV and the Movise....in Real Life there is far less to fear from people with Psychiatric conditions..than the Press would like you to know....

Chain Saw killers are very few and far between and usually found only in
fiction....or the Movies.....

Originally Posted by Pagly

Chain Saw killers are very few and far between and usually found only in
fiction....or the Movies.....

Or here...

<Demonic Laughter> ha ha ha ha ha ha

<Sound of chainsaw starting>........

Fade to next scene.

i personally think that if the guy is crazy or medically unfit....whatever...don't you think that he knew something was wrong with him before he killed or whatever and there fore i feel he is responsible...the little girl didn't do anything...the guy should have been getting checked out...his responsibility....throw the book at him... how many other people have had hard lives etc and have gone on to be great people....some people are just needing something to blame....other than themselves...

Originally Posted by Pagly

I am unable to look at it in any other way than from a medical standpoint....
very few true Schizophrenics 'go off' their meds......they realise how important they are.....the meds are the only way thay can have a useful and productive life.......you could very well be working beside people with this problem and never know it.........when correctly managed people with this problem are more intelligent and productive than the average 'normal' person

..........the one you quote belongs in the Comic Books and on Movies not in reality.....



Perhaps I should explain the difference..I am a Psychiatrist.....I treat with Drugs...........a Psychologist treats with words......and that is about as simple as i am able to get it for you...

You said it right there, very few go off their meds...
So you saying that some true Schizophrenics go off their meds??

Actually i Iknow this to be true, they think that theyre fine as the medication gives them a false sense of wellness, So they DO go off their meds, it is when theyre off their meds that a lot of them realise that they need them, and that they need help ....(Not when theyre on medication ))


You are completely wrong about belonging only in comic books, you obviously havent had much practical experience in Psychiatry if you truly believe that im not in any medical field but i have personally experienced firsthand many effects, that would shock you even more than someone thinking he was saving the earth with Rayguns,,,,That was a MILD example i was giving you

I know the difference well, my sister has a PHD/Masters in Psychology, and i have a Paranoid Schizophrenic Daughter, so in my world it isnt that rare at all and it seems quite common, so dont presume that i am speaking with my eyes closed, as far as him being assessed good for him/bad for him? doesnt matter the point this post has turned to is whether there is a crime committed if its done by a Schizophrenic off his/her meds whether it be a Paranoid Schizophrenia or another illness doesnt matter, it comes down to thought processes in the brain that gets mixed up, whatever the mental illness,

Ive seen many mentally sick people in society that arent on medication, youll find them at mens hostels/St vinnies/emergency accom/rehab centres/in the streets with their possessions in a shopping trolley, society calls a lot of them bums..all of the bums you see have varying degrees of mental incapacity,, some of them do fight aliens and some of them just stab themselves and cut open their stomach to try and remove the cameras put in there by the government...(first hand experience on that one)

If you think that its only in comic books,,,well you sound like a counsellor or someone on their first year of uni,,and theres a big difference between a phsychiatrist and a counsellor....

I think thats about as simple as im able to get for you too

Totally with you there onetoone....i have a son with mental illness....unless you see/experience it first hand most have no clue as to what actually goes on.


Sexci

It is by now a cliché to say that justice delayed is justice denied. Though I am not specifically acquainted with the case that is under debate and thoroughly conversant about the judicial system under whose purview the case is, it is symptomatic of our times that judicial systems groan under strain of pending and protracted litigation. As a practising lawyer from India i experience this state of affairs every day. I do not subscribe to the point of view that judiciary everywhere is afflicted with all pervasive sickness.But yes it can be conceded that It is painful for the families of victims to wait for long years to attain justice. However it should be borne in mind that legal systems everywhere do not stand in isolation but are part of societies. The procedural safeguards we build in them to ensure that no innocent man is punished often become the reason for delay in securing convictions. But our determination to see speedy justice is delivered to the families of victims must not result in our condonation of circumventing and often throwing the procedural safe guards to winds. Thus the time honoured principle" let 1oo wrongdoers may go unpunished rather than a single innocent man being punished" must be scrupulously adhered to if the edifice of liberty and freedom stand firm.

This is all very sad,

The laws need to be changed im sure.Many of them were made many years ago.Slowly this is happening.

The whole law system is your not guilty until proven.

Meanwhile the victims and their family are the ones left with the pain and suffering.
Mental illness isnt been well looked after as a lot of other illness in our hospitals these days.
Victims of crime are left to pick up the the lives of those affected.
I do feel for the family of that child.
And i am not here to judge either hes been judged already.

Ooops forgot to mention.

I was married to someone who wasnt treated and he ended up dead.
So if you haevnt walked in someones shoes whos been affected with a mental illness dont even go there.

Though the entire debate centres around the distinction of madness and civilisation, the dilemma is whether sickness pervades judiciary or simply the judiciary is unable to cope up with pervasive sickness in societies